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@paul Facebook has over 2 billion users on its network.

if actual outreach and coalition building is a key target for organizing, why in the world would we shun a tool obviously still critical in that realm?

I absolutely hate fb and wish everyone would come to . That's also a pipe dream when ppl are busy and use the tools they know and cant get all the things here that they do there.

I remade an acct to keep up with comrades / access events.

Organize where effective.
Always.

@slackz Organising on Facebook is handing a nicely formatted list of all activists, all their contacts, friends and family, their 24/7 location data, browsing history, and a list of how to manipulate them to the authorities.

It doesn't matter how many people are there, it's not worth it.

If people truly care about an issue they'll go to the extreme inconvenience of typing a different URL into their browser to visit a safer site with less surveillance built in.

@paul yeah, that's why it's not the place to plan direct action. Also not every uses the app or gives carte blanche permissions.

But there's no sense in not promoting events or political education on there. Feels like security culture gone wrong

I think ppl should take steps to sandbox fb, but i think it's a mistake to avoid it altogether for organizing. I know so many organizers far more effective than I utilizing it very well. They also are far more targeted

@paul I deleted my fb acct when I made organizing.social and I noticed a significant negative impact on my ability to promote events and do outreach.

For May Day and for following community reported events and for keeping up with comrades across the country and globe...

I absolutely felt compelled to remake one. Doesn't mean you should if that's not right for you, but I think this attitude of "never organize on fb" is severely limiting and unrealistic

@slackz @paul maybe the real should be only organized explicitly public and explicitly legal things on Facebook and direct people to other places for everything else

@DJWalnut @paul yeah, def not the place for anything sensitive. And we should certainly focus on building up alternatives. I would love to spend all my social media time on (mastodon), but we also need to meet ppl where they're at.

@slackz @paul This is such a hard issue. After the 2016 election the women's march was organized on FB and would not have been as big a success w/out it. So I hung on a bit longer. But after hearing Zuck's testimony to congress I couldn't bear to help the jerk make money by staying on his platform, or let him keep sending my data to people trying to destroy my country. I go back and forth on it, but the abuse of users ultimately keeps me off FB.

@paul @slackz This.

Audre Lorde said it best: “The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house.”

#SurveillanceCapitalism

@aral @paul the argument is not that fb is some force for good, but rather that we should be pragmatic enough to not let ideals blind us.

Would I like every single one of my comrades to perma delete fb and make the fediverse their social media home? Hell. Yes.

Is that going to happen? Absolutely not.

So the question is... do we abandon all those connections and channels of communication because it's a terrible platform?

I don't think that's remotely strategic. And I think it's selfish

@slackz @paul The only legitimate use of Facebook I see is to use it against the grain to get people off of Facebook. So, yes, use it to reach people you wouldn’t otherwise reach but not as the canonical location of any information or functionality. Make the canonical location of your activism an independent place and lead people there with every post on Facebook (if it even reaches them via their algorithmically-censored timelines).

2018.ar.al/notes/spyware-vs-sp

@aral @paul I read content everyday on fb that i would not see elsewhere. Pan-African revolutionaries, prison / police abolitionists, incredible indigenous activists...

I dont see all their posts, surely i don't trust fb for curating all the things, sometimes I have to click thru to profile to see various things.

But I also know if I just chucked fb i the trash, I would miss all that and be a lesser organizer. Yea fuck fb and let's persuade ppl off, but there's a lot of nuance here

@paul @slackz ahh i see you answered the questions already :)

what are the best activist instances here on mastodon?

i am interested in starting my own instance here for an idea i was about to begin on facebook

now i need to learn how to setup my own reliable server first :)

@lovi @paul you would be very welcome on organizing.social :)
I can send invite if you're interested...

@slackz @paul yes please send an invite — actually i was wondering how i do sign up for new instances as i'm a noob here on mastodon :)

@paul @slackz Limiting your reach when organizing sounds like a terrible idea. Sure, pull it off of facebook but use the tools available.

@paul

@slackz

They need to know about the issue/url before they can type that in.

Facebook is like a prison, you don't want to be there, shouldn't be there, but some are stuck there. You can go in there and try and save some ppl, but also know the risks in doing so...

@slackz
@paul - If Facebook doesn't like your cause you won't reach anyone anyway.

@MH @paul tell that to All-African People's Revolutionary Party comrades or folks fighting pipelines in Louisiana or the rad abolitionists in Chicago. Facebook and twitter are corporate cesspools and problems for all sorts of reasons, but organizers have used those platforms extremely effectively.

Of course I prefer a transparent chronological feed on the fediverse and hate the algorithmic fuckery, but please don't erase ppls' effective use of those tools

@slackz @paul - Tell them what? That they were lucky to be under the mercy of Facebook?

Let me rephrase: Outreach on Facebook is only effective if Facebook allows it to be. Many people have been burnt by putting themselves in that position.

@MH @paul you are fundamentally ignoring and disrespecting the people who have done very effective outreach work on fb despite the shenanigans.

I dunno what your experience is but so many incredible organizers I know have very positive traction on there and your naive assertion implies that they're somehow puppets and their message is only allowed cause fb wants it to.

Bullshit.

I have far too much evidence to the contrary and tbh I would examine why you're making this argument

@slackz @paul - You are fundamentally ignoring what I'm saying. I've never claimed outreach can't be effective on Facebook.

You are arguing against something I'm not saying. Read my comments again.

Put 'Facebook shadow-ban' in a search engine and you'll see that my "naive assertion" of them suppressing posts and pages as they like is 100% true, as admitted by Facebook themselves a few months ago.

@MH @paul I'm not saying that doesn't happen. And I know the terrible things fb has done with respect to managing content / abuse / etc. Not ignoring that.

But it's also not fair to say that if Facebook doesn't approve of content it goes nowhere. I respect a lot of organizers who've made a well-informed decision: yes, facebook is terrible and not to be trusted; also it's a useful tool for certain types of outreach and comms work. And they've been very effective on there

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OrgSpace

OrgSpace is a social media instance on the Mastodon network built by, and for, community organizers. We believe social media is a critical tool for political education, relationship building, mobilizing folks; however, facebook, twitter and other mainstream networks have opted time and again for profit and commercializing personal data regardless of the consequences.

Mastodon is a decentralized, but federated network. This means that when you join organizing.social, you get to interact with everyone you choose to on the wider Mastodon network; but you also get to see locally scoped content (from this instance) and help build a network particularly focused on building community and organizing those around us against oppressive systems and towards a society rooted in equity and global justice.

Setting up this instance has been a project of PDX Outreach for Justice, but we want this to be a global network of organizers and welcome moderators, admins, and engineers, and others who would be interested in contributing and shaping this process

Special thanks for the custom emoji:

  • @[email protected] for all the incredible custom flan emojis!
  • joint by Ian Ransley from the Noun Project